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Teresa Williams | Finding Kindness and Compassion In The Midst Of Broken Relationships | K&C 22

Love and compassion in divorce is an often misunderstood concept. Divorce is often seen as a negative thing, and there is a stigma attached to it that can be hard to overcome.  In this episode, Gordon has a conversation with Teresa Williams, MA, MS, LPC about how love and compassion can be found even in the midst of a divorce. 

When Teresa Williams, a licensed professional counselor in Huntsville, Alabama, went through her own divorce, she experienced the pain and loneliness that comes with it. She felt abandoned by family, friends, and even her church. This experience led her to start the Confident and Courageous Woman website, a coaching program designed to help women going through divorce. 

Meet Teresa Williams

“With compassion and understanding, I serve individuals, families, and groups.  Through offering practical help, I’ve watched them become hopeful as they maneuvered life in new circumstances.  I am honored to sit with people in a variety of crises, life stages, relationship struggles, and painful situations.  I am thankful to be a practical and hopeful voice.

My background includes a Bachelor’s degree in Human Resource Management, a Master of Arts Degree in Human Services Counseling from Liberty University, and a Master of Science in Counseling from Faulkner University. I am a Licensed Professional Counselor in Alabama. My counseling experience includes psychological assessments, working with adults, divorce recovery, women’s issues, and marital difficulties. I am a Prepare/Enrich pre-marital and marriage facilitator and a Board-Certified Life Coach. I am trained in Levels 1, 2 & 3 of Gottman Method Couples Therapy and lead seminars as a Gottman Leader of The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work couples program.  I am a speaker for business and women’s conferences/events

I love traveling with my husband, spending time reading, listening to music, and playing with our dog, Ollie.”

Help Going Through a Process 

As a therapist, Teresa understands the stages of the grief process. She said expressed you think you know what to expect “until you actually walk that path, and you start experiencing the grief on multiple levels. And a lot of times people don’t know what to do.” People don’t know what to say. They take sides or they don’t take sides and they just disappear. And it’s a very chaotic time, especially in the beginning. So being able to find the support and the kindness and compassion and what that looks like can help a lot of people. People don’t know how to do that because they haven’t walked through it. Or there is judgment. There’s so much stigma. You put the word divorce between, in front of, or behind any other word, and it’s always negative. And it shouldn’t be that way. “What I have found also is being able to help others understand how to walk alongside someone who is experiencing this devastating life change.”

Loves and Acceptance Through Spiritual Beliefs 

Teresa Williams wants people to know “If we look at scripture, the only people that Jesus really condemned were the Sadducees and the Pharisees. And everyone else, He had compassion for. And not that he overlooks sin, but he didn’t condemn them. He did criticize, he showed love and support. People might think “Am I committing a sin? Is God ever going to forgive me? Can I ever remarry?” Teresa continues, “I’m not a theologian, but I do know what scripture says about Jesus and how he interacted with people, and he loved them, and he accepted them where they were. And regardless of whether you view it as a sin or a survival, God still loves you, and God still accepts you. And you can move on.” Sometimes we forget that Jesus extends grace and mercy to everyone. We want that same grace and mercy from Jesus, and we need to extend that to others around us, regardless of what they’re walking through. 

Grace and Self-Care Navigating through Divorce

For a lot of people, the hardest person to give grace to is herself. Especially at the beginning. There’s so much chaos. Their world has just fallen apart, and they don’t know what to do. They don’t know where to turn to. Everything around them just got shattered. There’s a lot of fear. It’s hard to not feel overwhelmed. So, taking one step at a time and self-care can be forgotten. One of the hardest things for women, just in general is asking for help.  It’s hard to say, “I need help with (fill in the blank).” There’s so much judgment and criticism around divorce, especially in the church. And so, a woman is fearful to even reach out even to friends and family.

Advice for helping Someone Going Through Divorce

Loneliness is a big issue. People do not know how to come alongside. They don’t know what to say or how to help this person. That’s hard for a lot of individuals. How other people can come alongside these individuals? Spiritually, pray for them. And maybe get them involved, such as going with them to a Bible study or to a weekly meeting that the churches have. If they’ve been ostracized by their church and they feel and they don’t feel comfortable anymore going to the church, how about saying, “Hey, how about coming with me on Sunday morning?” This time is hard because this person is grieving. There are a lot of tears. Teresa remembers thinking “The tears are never going to end, and the pain is never going to stop.” A big support would be if a person can just come alongside and let that person talk without offering advice. Let them cry without judgment. Don’t take sides, just be there for that person. Just being there, just being present. 

Other things that we can do alongside is for the physical side. Do something to relieve the stress on that person. Offer to take them to dinner or lunch. Come over and cook dinner for them. Take them to a concert. Go on an activity. Teresa remembers “When I went through it my house was a disaster because I was working all kinds of crazy hours at the time. And, having a house that’s messy just adds one more burden to you. And I had a good friend who just came over and allowed me to cry. And she vacuumed my floor. She washed my dishes. It was such a comfort to me. It meant so much to me.”  Do something for her so she can take care of herself. Let that woman take a hot bubble bath or just sit down and catch up on laundry. Do the things that show compassion and kindness to her in her time of need.  

Advice on Healing

First, take your time and take your time and allow yourself to agree with all the emotions associated with the shock of it, the anger, and the disbelief. There will be times of bargaining and all the stages of grief. Allow yourself those emotions, don’t stuff them. Get a good friend that’s going to come alongside you and be there and encourage you. This friend is one that doesn’t offer advice but just radiates encouragement and love. And then go find a therapist. Go do your own work. Find the things that you need to take care of yourself. It’s a process. It’s not a one-and-done thing. It doesn’t mean that when the ink is dry on the divorce decree that all of a sudden life’s going to go back to some type of normal and you’re going to be okay. It doesn’t work like that. Remember, it’s a process. 

There will be new stages and relearning. It is learning how to deal with the triggers. The sight smells, the taste that triggers you to your past, and learning how to cope with them and not allow them to take you down and derail you. Also understanding what the new norm is. Because there is a lot of adjustments. Maybe you didn’t get the house in the divorce, or maybe you have to move. And then the custody situation if there’s kids involved. Now you’re used to having your kids all the time around you. Suddenly they have to go over to dad’s house, for the weekend or every other week. That’s a major adjustment. During this time it is so vital not to isolate yourself. It would be natural, depending on the circumstances, that you don’t want to talk to people. You don’t want to put yourself out there.  You don’t want to have to explain what happened for the hundredth time. Stay active and being a part of the community and having that support is really vital to your emotional health. 

Final Message from Teresa

“For the person that is walking through [divorce] I just want to encourage them. If you’re willing to do the work, if you’re willing to keep moving forward, you will be okay. I can promise you that. “…What’s really important, is to know that there’s hope in healing beyond divorce, regardless of your circumstances.” 

Teresa has free resources on her web page. Go to Confident and Courageous Woman for five tips for dealing with the Stress of Divorce. They can reach out Teresa through that website. She has coaching programs and she is getting ready to launch (soon) a membership program. in membership.

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Gordon Brewer: Record. Okay, Go ahead. Hello
Teresa Williams: everyone. Welcome to this episode of Kindness and Compassion Podcast. I am so excited to be here with my friend Gordon. I'm Therea Williams, licensed professional counselor in Huntsville,
Gordon Brewer: Alabama. Perfect.
Hello everyone and welcome again to the Kindness and Compassion Podcast and I'm really looking forward to you to getting getting to hear from my guest today there, Williams. Welcome there. Thank you, Gordon. Glad to be here. Yes. And there I met and I actually met through my other podcast, the Practice of Therapy podcast, and I knew from our conversation that we really wanted to I wanted to get her on this podcast because I think she is Doing some work just with this whole intersection between spirituality and what it's like for people that are going through divorce, particularly women and that sort of thing.
So therea be tell folks about yourself and how you've landed where you've landed.
Teresa Williams: Okay like I said before, I'm a licensed professional counselor and in my practice I see individual, I do married to family and I saw a need to be able to help women who, one, either walking through divorce or been divorced and maybe don't know what to do and stuck.
And I know those feelings personally because I have walked that journey. I was married for a hundred years. Not really, but it felt like it uhhuh and had children and had a spouse who committed adultery and it was a very public and nasty divorce. And I felt alone and abandoned, not by only family and friends, but also my church.
And so my hardest desire, Is to be able to help other women that, again, who are either currently walking through a divorce or been divorced for a while and don't have the support and the encouragement they need. . So I felt like the Lord was calling me. So I started a website separate from my.
Therapy practice called the competent and courageous woman. . And it is a coaching program just for that to be able to come along and work alongside other women experiencing divorce.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah. And I think it's a struggle. I know both of us are from the south, We talked about that before and I think just culturally, there's I think some misplaced stigmas around divorce and around people that are going through kind, the end of a marriage and there's a whole grieving process that occurs with that.
I know we talked about that previously, but I. In your work? What, I guess what I'm interested in, or I think maybe folks would be interested in, is it sounds like you went through a process of changing your mind about some things, just not only on the spiritual side of things, but just for you personally, and of course being a therapist to, you've got all the information, but when you experience it personally, it's a different thing.
So you wanna say something about all those things? Yeah,
Teresa Williams: it is. And like you say, being a therapist, I know all the grief stages and I know where you think you know what to expect until you actually walk that path and you start experience the grief on multiple levels. And a lot of times people don't know what to do.
They don't know what to say and they take. Or they don't take sides and they just disappear. And it's a very chaotic time, especially in the beginning. So being able to find the support and the kindness and compassion and what that looks like, a lot of people. Don't know how to do that because a either one, they haven't walked through it.
Or two from a judgmental sign like we talked about. There's so much stigma. You put the word divorce between, in front of or behind any other word, and it's always negative. And it shouldn't be that way. , what I have found also is being able to help others understand how to walk alongside someone who is experiencing this devastating life change.
.
Gordon Brewer: . Yes. Yeah. And I know one of the things I know just in my own work I'm also a marriage family therapist, and I think one of the struggles that people have as well is. Is just feeling like they are, for lack of a better term committing a sin by going through with a divorce and that sort of thing.
And so in your work with people around that, how do you help them navigate that and just really because that gets into our values and our beliefs and our faith and all of that sort of thing. How do you help people kinda walk through. Dilemma, so to speak.
Teresa Williams: If we look at scripture, the only people that Jesus really condemned were the Sadducees and the Pharisees.
And everyone else. He had compassion for right. And not that he overlooks sin. , but he didn't condemn them. , he did criticize, he showed love and support. And, they're so mis what I wanna say, interpretations of scripture. And regardless of what side of the fence you're on, whether you are the one that's wanting the divorce and.
the marriage is no longer working for whatever reason. Abuse. , whatever. And you feel like that you need to get out or your spouse is divorcing you and you're looking, you're going. Wait a minute. Am I committing a sin? Is God ever gonna forgive me? Can I ever remarried? And depending upon what orientation spiritually you stand on, one of the things that I don't try to get into mud.
I'm not a colo, but I do know what scripture says about Jesus and how he interacted with people and he loved them, and he accepted them where they were. . And regardless whether you view it as a sin or a survival, God still loves you, God still accepts you. And you can move on.
Gordon Brewer: And I think the other thing that's helpful to maybe understand is that the when the scriptures were written, and again, I'm not. I don't want to, I don't want to force my views on anyone else, but one of the things that I think is important to remember is that when the scriptures were written, it was in a totally different culture in totally different time.
Absolutely. And that and that you have to take that into context. Back in, back during those times, 2000 years ago, Women were just basically seen as property and not to be treated as any different than, , your animals or anything else. And I think one of the things again that Jesus that came through with that, with Jesus is that he did treat it with compassion.
And I think a lot of what was said in the New Testament about divorce, if you look at it through the lens of compassion, of really check making sure. That people are taken care of, that somebody's not left destitute, somebody's not left on the street to fend for themselves. That's a different way of looking at it because I think it's a, yeah, totally different culture and time.
Teresa Williams: Absolutely. And sometimes we forget that Jesus extends grace and mercy to everyone. Yes. And that we want that same grace and mercy from Jesus, and we need to extend that to others around us, regardless of what they're walking through.
Gordon Brewer: And I think it, I think the other thing too Is that's where self care comes into play.
And I think one of the, I think for a lot of people, the hardest person to give grace to is herself. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Theresa, with your work with folks that are of women in particular that are going through a this thing of divorce, what. What sort of themes do you see that you would, that you tend to try to help them navigate through?
Teresa Williams: I think there's, especially at the beginning, there's so much chaos. Their world has just fallen apart and they don't know what to do. They don't know where to turn to. Everything around them just got chattered. . And there's a lot of fear and, being able, just like you talk about, to say, Okay, don't get overwhelmed.
Let's take one step at a time. , let's do this self care. And I think one of the hardest things for women, just in general is asking for help is being able to reach out and say, I need, and fill in that blank. . A lot of times, like we talked about, there's so much judgment and criticism around divorce, especially in the church.
And so a woman is fearful to even reach out. And sometimes, like I said before, that even includes friends and family.
Gordon Brewer: . Yeah. And one of the, one of the things just in mental health, I think one of the things that just is Really at the root of a lot of mental health issues is this sense of being lonely or being alone.
And I think that when we can help people get connected and really kinda reassure them that there are other people out there that are being, that are willing to be with them on the journey, that's where a lot of healing can.
Teresa Williams: Absolutely. And you know when a lot of people don't know how to come alongside, they don't.
Because of before one, they have maybe never walked through it themselves or even had a friend or family member walk through it and they don't know what to do. They don't know what to say or how to help this person because if you look at them, they're a mess. . , and so that's part of the problem as.
Right,
Gordon Brewer: Yeah. And I think that, if anybody is going through a divorce or going through a situation where they are, yeah, you. Maybe not feeling good about themselves or feeling kinda hopeless about their situation. That you, just to echo what you said is being able to reach out to the right people around that and being able to get that support.
I think the other thing too, that we kinda hinted at is that, There's a lot of grief involved in this and being able to allow someone to go through the grieving process and mourn, mourn what is happening.
Teresa Williams: Yeah. And that's hard for a lot of individuals. . And so if I could just speak for a second or two of how other people can come alongside these individuals.
Spiritually, if you know the. Pray for them, obviously. , and maybe get them involved offer for, to a Bible study or to a weekly meeting that the churches having. Or if they've been ostracized by their church and they feel, they don't feel comfortable anymore going to the church.
How about offering to say, Hey, how about coming with me on Sunday morning? And just come and worship with. and emotionally, it's really hard because this person is grieving. There's a lot of tears. In fact, I remember myself thinking the tears are never going to end.
, the pain is never gonna stop and. If a person can just come alongside and let that person talk without offering advice, and let them cry and no judgment. And the other side is don't take sides, just be there for that person.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah. And I think it's a our tendency as human beings is when we see someone else in pain is that we want to fix it for them and somehow or another take the pain.
But the truth of the matter is that the pain is there. And I think you're exactly right. It's just that journey alongside and being with there's a, I think there's a lot to be said for. What I like to refer to as the ministry of presence, of being just present with people and being able to just let them know that they're not alone in this.
That doesn't necessarily take the pain away, but it does provide a sense of comfort to some degree. And yeah. Yeah.
Teresa Williams: I really like that. Just being there, just being present. Other things that we can do alongside is for the physical side. , is maybe doing something to relieve stress on that person, like just being a friend, offering to take them to dinner or lunch and or coming over and cooking dinner for them.
, how about, taking 'em to a concert, offering them to go on activities or, I remember. When I went through it my house was a disaster because I was working all kinds of crazy hours at the time. And, having a house that's messy just adds one more burden to you. And I had a good friend who just came over and allowed me to cry.
And she vacuumed my floor. , she washed my dishes and it was such a comfort to me. , it meant so much to me. Whatever that is, that if someone is going through divorce and has small kids, they don't get a break most of the time. Yeah. Let the kids out for ice cream. Yeah. Let that woman take a hot bubble bath or just sit down and catch up on laundry.
. So those are things that we can show compassion and kind. To others.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah, I love that. So is in your work as a therapist and just working with people that are going through these kinds of struggles with the, with a divorce or ending of a relationship and that sort of thing. What do you see as the tasks maybe that's not a great word, but what do you see as, what is the work of recovering from situations like this?
Teresa Williams: First of all is take your time and take your time and allow yourself to agree all the emotions associated with, the shock of it and the anger, the, the disbel belief. The bargaining, all the stages of grief. And allow yourself those emotions, don't stuff them. , get you a good friend that's going to come alongside you and be there and encourage you.
That doesn't offer advice, but just encouragement and love. And then go find a therapist. Go do your own work. I did that myself and. Find the things that you need to take care of you. , because it's a process. It's not a one and done thing. It doesn't mean that when the ink is dry on the divorce decree that all of a sudden life's gonna go back to some type of normal and you're gonna be okay.
, it doesn't work like that. I have a, it's a process.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of layers to it, and everybody's situation is a little different, but I think one of the things is, you're right, is finding a professional to talk to about it. Because as I think about it, there's not only.
The grief of it, but there might be some trauma associated with it, and a person being able to find, finding out about secrets that have been kept and all of that sort of thing. Dealing with that. The redefining of self, particularly for people that have been married for a while.
They define themselves in the context of a relationship. And so in, in many ways, you're having to redefine who you are as a person and all of that sort of thing. And so that, like you said, that's a process. And I think I remember a friend of mine who's also a therapist was talking about grief in terms of it's not something you get.
But it's something you get through and I think a lot of times to be able to just recognize that it's not necessarily something you're gonna get over and it's just gonna be done. But you're getting through it and it will crop up again. That's the nature of grief.
Teresa Williams: It is and learning how to deal with the triggers.
The sight smells, the taste that trigger you to your past and learning how to cope with them and not allowing them to take you down and derail you. And right. Also understanding what the new norm is. Because there is a lot of adjustments. Maybe you didn't get the house in the divorce, Maybe you have to move.
And then the custody situation with, if there's kids involved, now you're used to having your kids all the time around you, and now they have to go over to dad's house, for the weekend or every other week. That's a major adjustment. Yeah.
Gordon Brewer: And I think that's yeah. And so I think, again, going full circle back to finding someone that can walk alongside you in that journey is gonna be one of the most helpful things that you, that anyone can do with that.
Absolutely. Yeah. And then finding a safe community to be in with all of that. And we're talking about church, but there are other different communities that people can be involved in to where they can get that support. And so really getting community and support.
Teresa Williams: Yeah, absolutely. That is so vital and not to isolate yourself, because a lot of times, depending on the circumstances, you don't wanna talk to people, you don't wanna put yourself out there, You don't wanna have to explain what happened for the Hunt or Tom and have somebody either a, not know what to say, or when they do say something, it's not helpful.
. And Active and staying, aware of being involved in the community and having that support is really vital to your emotional
Gordon Brewer: health. Yes. Therea I, I wanna be respectful of your time, but what are some other parting thoughts that maybe you have just around this topic and just thinking about how people can live into kindness and compassion around divorce, particularly if for folks that maybe find it a little bit.
Teresa Williams: Is, first of all, I would say to those who find it troubling, we don't live with that couple, We don't know what has gone on in that marriage. , we weren't there, so we don't really have a right to judge. , we don't have a right to criticize because we don't know, we didn't live with them and vice versa.
If we're married, people don't live with us, hopefully. And so they don't know what goes on behind closed doors. . And having that compassion and kindness around it for that person who's walking that path is so vital. . And for the person that is walking through it I just wanna encourage them.
You will get. , if you're willing to do the work, if you're willing to keep moving forward, you will be okay. , I can promise you that. , and that's what's really important, is to know that there's hope in healing beyond divorce, regardless of your circumstances.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah. That's great.
That's great. Theresa, tell folks how they can get in touch with you if they have questions or want to connect with.
Teresa Williams: I have a free handout. If they wanna go to Confident and courageous woman.com. , there is a free handout, It's five tips for dealing with the Stress of Divorce.
They can reach out to me through that website at Teresa at Confident and Courageous Woman and I have coaching programs and we're getting ready to launch hopefully soon in membership. So they can reach out and I would be glad to talk with
Gordon Brewer: them. Awesome. And we'll have links here in the show notes and the show summary for all of this.
Teresa, it's good to reconnect again and hope you as we're recording this, we're moving full force into the holiday season. So I hope you have a great holidays and Thank you. You too. And all of that kinda fun stuff. Alrighty.
Teresa Williams: Thank
Gordon Brewer: you. It's been a pleasure. Yes, mine too.

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About

L. Gordon Brewer Jr., LMFT |Podcast Host – Gordon has spent his career in helping professions as a licensed therapist, counselor, trainer, and clergy person.  He has worked with 100’s of people in teaching them the how to better manage their emotions through self-care and the practices of kindness and compassion.  Follow us on Instagram and Facebook .  And be sure to subscribe to our newsletter.

 

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Daniel Fava | Simple Acts Of Kindness & Compassion In Everyday Life | K&C 16

Where am I being kind and compassionate in my everyday life? Daniel Fava, a web-designer and online marketing strategist, is confronted by this very relatable question as he joins Gordon for the next conversation on the podcast. In this episode, Daniel explores with Gordon what he learned about kindness and compassion 13 years ago on a trip to India and how he is still applying it today. Listen in for an encouraging reminder that a small act, when done with love, can be the most powerful act of all.

Meet Daniel Fava

Daniel Fava was born and raised on Long Island, NY and is currently one of just five hockey fans in Atlanta where he currently lives with his wife. After using his skills as a web designer to help his wife launch a private therapy practice in 2011, Daniel decided he want to share those same skills with others. Thus, in 2016 he began a blog called Create My Therapist Website to help therapists learn how to use effective website design and online marketing strategies to launch and grow their private practice. Later he started a podcast to emphasize the importance of going beyond websites and employing online marketing and other strategies for private practice growth.

Coming in solidly as an INFJ on the Myers-Briggs personality inventory, Daniel brews his own beer. Meanwhile, bourbon is his love language—alongside a good hot dog, a good slice of pizza, and a good burger. He’s traveled to 12 countries, including a hike with his wife to the Mt. Everest Base Camp, and he also plays guitar, piano, drums, and bass.

On a Mission

Beginning with his first short-term mission trip to Ukraine in 2008, missions work has been a huge part of Daniel’s life, shaping both who he is as well as the shared vision he and his wife hold for their lives. When he steps outside his daily life and heads abroad on mission, he’s asking the questions: What is God doing in a different location? How can I serve? Share love? Do some tangible work, or help meet needs?

The Ultimate Act of Kindness

In 2009 during a mission trip to India, Daniel spent two days in Calcutta visiting one of the homes founded by Mother Teresa for those suffering with a long-term illness or disability who have no one else to care for them. That’s where he learned about what Gordon describes as “the ultimate act of kindness”—the ministry of presence. Like many of us, Daniel is often task-oriented. He’s used to waiting for directions and looking for someone else to lead the way. However, on his first day in the home, confronted by extreme poverty and human suffering, there was no one to tell him what to do. Self-conscious and out of his element, Daniel jumped in to cross-barriers of language, culture, class, and life-experience to connect with a man through physical contact and simply being present. With his own inner barriers broken, Daniel felt lighter on his second day in the home. He was better able to jump in and be present, even while helping out with a simple task or two—without being focused on himself and his performance.

Refueling our Capacity for Kindness and Compassion

As an introvert, Daniel was on sensory overload during his trip to India. There was no personal space. During this time, he relied on a few key practices that helped keep his inner reservoir of kindness and compassion full. This included getting up early before the rest of his team to journal and find time to be alone with himself and God. As he was faithful to these disciplines, kindness and compassion could continue flowing from his own reservoir to those around him.

Making Sense of Injustice & Learning through Diverse Abilities

Coming face-to-face with extreme poverty and suffering can force us to confront just how much the circumstances of our birth shapes our lives. Daniel wrestled with questions about social justice while he was in India, and while he didn’t find any clear answers, he believes that love and grace can make a difference.

Meanwhile, Gordon shared about powerful lessons he learned during Lent while listening to Henri Nouwen’s book Discernment: Reading the Signs of Daily Life. In the book, Henri shares about his experiences in a L’ARCHE community. L’ARCHE communities worldwide exist to form a network of relationships between members both with and without intellectual disabilities.

Conclusion

Give yourself the gift of perspective. Taking time out to connect with people whose struggles are different than our own—or perhaps more similar than we might think—can be life-changing. Daniel says we won’t regret making the time to step away and volunteer or spend time on mission overseas. He assures us that there’s a gift to unwrap through these experiences that we can’t receive any other way than taking our eyes off of ourselves and being present in the reality of another.

Links & Resources Mentioned

Private Practice Elevation – https://privatepracticeelevation.com/
Daniel Fava on Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/DanielFava/
Youth With A Mission (YWAM) – https://ywam.org/
Discernment: Reading the Signs of Daily Life, by Henri J. M. Nouwen
L’ARCHE – https://www.larche.org/

Show summary written by Anne Milligan

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Gordon (00:00):
Well, hello folks, and welcome again to the kindness and compassion podcast. And I'm, I'm looking forward to you meeting a friend of mine, Daniel fava, who I've, uh, I've known for some time now. And Daniel is, um, somebody that I've done some work with not only professionally, but just we're in the same space as far as consulting with people around private practices and the therapy, uh, realm and, uh, Daniel. Welcome.
Daniel (00:28):
Thanks so much for having me Gordon. I'm super excited to, uh, to hang out with you and, uh, and chat.
Gordon (00:33):
Yes. And, and Daniel and I were just kinda reminiscing before we started recording. We had, uh, both got to be at a conference together this first time I had met Daniel in person and it was, uh, it was the, the conference was called the faith and practice conference. So it was really geared towards therapists that, um, kinda liked to incorporate faith based kinds of things with their practices. And one of the things that I'll let Daniel tell more about himself here, but, uh, Daniel's wife is a therapist as well. And so Daniel, um, tell folks a little bit about yourself.
Daniel (01:11):
Yeah. So as you said, my wife is a therapist and she's a, she's a huge part of my story and really my career, uh, because it started helping her get her private practice online, back in 2012. So, uh, I have a website design and development background, and so got her business online with an online presence and a, and a nice website and helped her get some of those first clients, uh, into her practice. And then in 2016, decided to launch my own. Um, I mean, basically I was a freelancer back then, so I figured, oh, I can make some more websites for therapists and I can start a blog and all that stuff. And, um, so over the last, uh, six years or so, it's kind of morphed into, uh, more of a website design agency and SEO agency. And we, we live in Atlanta right now. We've been here since we've been married in 2010, so about 12 years and it's home, I'm, uh, born and raised in New York, long island. Uh, the New York Rangers are in the Stanley cup playoffs right now. So I'm super excited and that always pulls me back home and I love watching them play and listen to the chance at Madison square garden. So, yeah.
Gordon (02:16):
Awesome. Awesome. Yeah, it's a, yeah, as I've gotten to know Daniel, one of the things that I knew his background is part of his story, which is a big part of what I'm looking forward to him, kinda sharing with you, all that are listening is his work, uh, doing some mission work in India and the impact that made on his life and just really how he really changed his mind, maybe about some things. And I don't wanna put words in your mouth, mouth, Daniel around that. Um, but tell, tell folks a little bit about your story with that and just what a difference it made for you.
Daniel (02:57):
Yeah, so yeah, so missions work is a huge, it's really a huge part of my life and who I am and who, you know, myself and my wife are in our relationship. Um, and so first of all, I mean, before even getting into the story, Gordon, I just wanna say thank you for, for this project that you're doing with this podcast, for giving, giving people a space to kind of dig into compassion and kindness. Like when you invited me to be on here, it really, I, I had to reflect, you know, a little bit about, okay, where, where has kindness and compassion played a big role in my life? Uh, where does it play now? I can be, I can sometimes get so pretty hard on myself. Cause my first thought was like, well, where am I being kind and compassionate, you know, in my everyday life.
Daniel (03:42):
And so for my story and my life, uh, since about oh 2008 or so, um, have been doing, I went on my first mission trip to Ukraine and I loved the, the sort of the aspect of taking time out of life and, you know, career and job and all that stuff to just focus on others, you know, to focus on, you know, for me it's what is God doing in a different location? How can I serve and really just share love or share tangible, um, you know, work, maybe that's building something or just, you know, helping meet needs in other countries. So in 2009, I, I joined up with a youth with a mission, which is a, an organization that they have a basis around the world and they basically, um, teach people how to, how to really be disciples of Jesus. And so I did a three month discipleship training school in Montana.
Daniel (04:45):
Um, prior to this, I had lost my job and I had also called off a wedding. I was engaged to somebody that wasn't wasn't the right fit. And so my life was kind of completely wide open. So I took a break from my life and said, okay, God, what are you saying? What are you doing? I have no idea what to do next, let me go to Montana for three months and, you know, go through this, this training and just focus on, you know, what, what did God wanna do in my life? And so part of that was there for three months. So, I mean, that was almost like a mission trip in itself being away for three months in Montana. But then at the end of that, we do an outreach to India and Thailand was where I was scheduled to go. And so I went to, I went to Calcutta India and that was our first stop.
Daniel (05:32):
And, um, one of the places that we got to, we did a bunch of stuff there, but one of the places that we went to was, and I believe it was only for two days was one of the mother Teresa Holmes, uh, in Calcutta. And that was just amazing in, in and of itself just to be in a place where, I mean, we've all likely heard stories about mother Teresa and all that she's done. Um, but there's, there's either two or three. Uh, I forget exactly two or three mother Teresa Holmes is what they call them. And one is for people who are just terminally ill. And so what she saw when she was in calcu was that because of the cast system and just how things work over there, there was, you know, a large group of people who, when they were terminally ill and dying, they would just be basically left for dad.
Daniel (06:24):
And so she wanted to give them a place where they could die with dignity, being surrounded by, you know, people who love and, and care for them. And other home that she started, which was the one that I found myself in was for people with long term illness. So it might not be that they're terminally ill. It could be that they've got a serious injury or they've just got an illness, um, you know, long term. And so what I remember from that experience, and I actually, I was a ferocious journaler back then. And so I had to revisit my journal. So it was, it was kind of cool just having this podcast on the calendar to like, oh, let me go back to this journal from this, you know, pivotal point in my life. And, uh, it took me right back, you know, to that first day there.
Daniel (07:08):
And so try to imagine you're surrounded by all these other volunteers, you know, and people, people also want to go and experience and kind of give them them give of themselves. So you've got people from all over the world, um, who are just there to volunteer. They could be traveling through Calcutta and they've heard about, you know, the mother Teresa Holmes and they wanna experience it. And so basically it's like, you, you show up, you sign in the day starts and nobody tells you what to do. And you're just, you're in this place. And there's there's rooms, it's almost kind of, some of the rooms feel like a hospital, you know, there's just beds of, um, of people just laying there. Um, and, you know, as a, as a male, I was in the, the section where, where the men were, um, and there's nobody telling you what to do.
Daniel (07:55):
And so I remember just these waves of self-consciousness coming over me because I'm like, oh, I'm, I'm here to serve. What can I do? And there's nobody telling you exactly what to do. And it's just like, you just gotta jump in and do it. And, you know, my heart was, I feel like my heart was in a good place because I was like, I want to serve, I wanna, you know, help out. But there was this sort of aspect of my upbringing was like, it's, it's all about the task. You know, like, mm-hmm, , what should I do? Gimme direction, tell me what to do. Um, I'm not always so quick to jump in. It's like, I'm, I'm looking for somebody to lead. Um, and so I remember just kind of wandering around feeling just useless, you know, and that was like, and then I start to get sort of very self-conscious and start like, oh, you're, you're not able to jump in.
Daniel (08:43):
You're an introvert, like all this sort, like that's holding you back, all that sort of stuff. And so I, I finally got very frustrated and was just like, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna do it. I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna jump in. And, you know, one of the, another volunteer I ran into said, well, the, the men, like when you just, you just massage them or just talk to them and sit with them. So I found myself next to this man's bed and he was just lying there. Obviously we couldn't speak each other's language, so I just, you know, smiled and, um, and just kind of motioned him like massage massage. And he just kind of, he's just slowly nodded to me. And so I found myself massaging this man's legs who were like, no joke, his legs up above his knee. Wasn't really thicker than my wrist, you know?
Daniel (09:26):
And so I'm having this experience of just like praying for this man as I'm massaging him or, um, you know, praying in my head or praying out loud as I'm massaging him being. So, you know, number one, thankful for my health and my life, and also just being so confronted with, um, just extreme poverty that like this, this man, I don't know, his life story, you know, likely he's, he's in this situation because of where he's lived, where he lives and the family he's born into. And that's really it, you know? And so I'm having this time of like, you know, giving, giving this man a massage, sitting with him, just one on one. And I'm also having this sort of spiritual experience where I'm praying at the same time and just thinking through all these things, you know? And so while I was so focused on the tasks or like, you know, what can I do to help out? I found myself just, you know, one on one with someone and just realizing that that was really what it was, you know, all about.
Gordon (10:34):
Right. Wow, wow. What a beautiful story. And that, um, it, to me, it just kind of speaks to what I, what I like to refer to as just the ministry of, of presence. And, um, mm-hmm, just being, being there with, with folks. Um, not that you could fix anything for that man or right. That sort of thing, other than just to provide comfort and, and be with him is yeah. To, to me the ultimate act act of kindness. Really.
Daniel (11:06):
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And cuz I was so hung up on like somebody tell me what to do and put me to work and that sort of thing. And so, you know, I came, I think it was like, um, I forget maybe it was about four hours. We were there in the morning for, and then sort of came away from that. We had some free time, the rest of the day. I remember, you know, just really like reflecting on my motives, you know, what mm-hmm why, why was I feeling? So self-conscious when I was there to like, you know, truly I wanted to serve and if truly I wanted to serve, it's not really about me. It's about the people that are there. It's not about proving anything. It's about the people that you're there to serve, not about the serving in and of itself.
Daniel (11:47):
So I felt like, I felt like God was really just challenging me to, to, you know, kind of let go of all those, those sorts of things. Mm-hmm um, and so I remember, you know, the next day, like I said, we were there for just two days the next day I remember feeling like I had sort of come to terms with why I was there and what I can do and it's okay. It's okay if I'm just standing around. It's okay. If I jump in it's it's just like there was this lightness. I remember just having a lot of actual, like fun the next day, just being there, being present and knowing that I could sit with someone one on one or, um, it's a big place. So they had like lots of cleaning to do, which was mm-hmm actually a lot of fun because they've, they've got basically just like holes in the wall and they just dump, they just dump buckets and buckets of water and then sweep all of the water through these holes in the wall.
Daniel (12:40):
So I found myself doing that the next day. And so it was kind of like, it was a more lighter and fun experience because I had let go of, I need to do this. I need to do that. Whereas I could just be, I could be present. And when I'm not so focused on myself and kind of how I'm thinking and feeling or have to perform, I could jump into whatever, you know, like I said, it could have been one on one with somebody who was there and sick or it could be helping, um, you know, the, the nuns out with cleaning and, and washing dishes and serving food, you know, whatever it was. It was just, I was much more present that second day.
Gordon (13:14):
Yeah. Yeah. It's a, it's amazing how transformative those, those experiences are when you're yeah. When you're confronted, you know, there's a, I think for, uh, I think for a lot of us that have had the experience of going on mission trips, I've I think I shared in the previous episode of this podcast, that one of the things that I was involved in for several years, uh, was going on mission trips to the country of Honduras and yeah, again, uh, you know, at that, at that time, next to Haiti, Honduras was the poorest poorest country in the, in the Western hemisphere. And, um, just being, being confronted with what I, uh, what I think of is just abject poverty and then interacting with people even through a language barrier, because I, I know just a tiny bit of Spanish , uh, but not being able to speak the language, but you make that connection and, and you realize that there's, there's something deeper and something greater that, that tugs at you through that.
Daniel (14:19):
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. That's one thing I just, I love about missions and I've been to been to Thailand, India, Guatemala, Cameroon, um, uh, what else, Mexico? We go to Mexico, a decent amount through our church still mm-hmm um, and it's just, there's, there's just that commonality of humanity and we all have the basic, uh, you know, need of, um, of just love and presence, you know, from one another. Right. And so it's, it's really, for me, I, my wife and I don't really feel called to like live in another country long term, but we do have dreams to take sabbaticals and serve mm-hmm like maybe in the summers when our kids are outta school, mm-hmm , um, but even with the short term trips and we still take them, uh, my wife and I, we help with our, uh, with the missions committee at our church. And there's still something about taking a week off to get out of your business, to get out of, um, mm-hmm, the, the routine of, of parenting and schedules and all that to just serve and sit with somebody mm-hmm and meet a need, you know?
Gordon (15:28):
Right, right. Yeah. I'm, I'm reminded, and we were chatting about this a little bit before we, before we started recording, um, back during lent of this year. Um, I, I took on the task of, uh, what the, I, I don't know if that's a task, but just kind of a discipline of, of reading. Um, well actually listening to on audible Henry Allen's book on discernment. And, um, he reflects in there several times about his work in the LAR community, which LAR is a community, uh, for profoundly disabled people. And what they do is then the kid, they actually live in community where they're paired up with a caregiver. And so they go go through their whole, you know, they, they just live intentionally that way. And wow, just, um, it's, it's quite, it's quite a calling, but it's just, um, really thinking about being able to find God or some people like to might, might put it at a higher power or finding something greater than your, than ourselves in doing just those very simple things of taking care of someone else. Yeah. You know, the bathing and the, like you mentioned, doing the massage, those kinds of things are just are to totally trans transformative, I think for people.
Daniel (16:51):
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And, and, you know, that kind of just, that brings me just back to mother Teresa, you know, what, and what she did. And, you know, through this experience, I just began to learn a little bit more, uh, about her. And you could see, you know, in, in Calcutta and India, which is, you know, predominantly, uh, Hindu, there was still, when you're, you're walking down the street, you're seeing in gift shops in other places you're seeing pictures of mother Teresa, you know, they had such respect and honor for this woman when basically she lives to meet those simple needs of, you know, the one person, you know, one at a time. And that really impacted a culture and, you know, a nation or, you know, really the world, obviously, you know, mm-hmm cause she's impacted me, you know? Yeah. So, and, um, there's this great quote that she has and I needed to look it up, so I wouldn't botch it, but it's, uh, not all of us can do great things, but we can do small things with great love. Yes. And it's like, that brings us back to that simple, you know, just yeah. Massaging someone's leg and not even being able to talk to them. It's so simple. But when it's done, when it's done with great love can really just impact a life.
Gordon (18:06):
Right. Yeah. So what, what did, uh, going to a place like Cal kata do for your, I guess maybe your worldview or how you think about your life now and that sort of thing?
Daniel (18:21):
Um, I , that's funny. I actually, I learned a lot about my introversion, uh, through that mm-hmm, through that trip. Uh Calta is just, um, I don't know how many people live there, but it's India, you know, so it's, I remember just being, you know, from the moment you wake up also, you know, being on a trip. So I was part of a team, you know, so I had my team there when I woke up mm-hmm and we'd go out into the city and you're on buses where you're super, extremely hot crammed in, and there's just, there's no personal space at all. I think India was, for me, it was just, uh, it was sensory overload mm-hmm . And so I, I learned a lot about my own sort of practices of, uh, journaling and quiet time getting up before the team was up.
Daniel (19:04):
So I could go outside and be alone, uh, with my thoughts and be alone with God and think, and pray and worship and listen to music mm-hmm , you know, and just kind of find time to recharge, you know, that sort of thing. And that was sort of like the, the, the first, um, uh, being immersed in that sort of culture really. I needed that. Otherwise I wasn't going to be able to do small things, but great love because I would just be anxious and right. Just, uh, exhausted all the time. So, I mean, that was sort of a, kind of a practical thing of just learning about my own personality. Right. Um, I think for, you know, like you said before, just being confronted with poverty, that was a, that was a big, that was kind of just crazy to say. And just to think that just it's crazy that, you know, I'm just because I grew up, uh, in New York or my, the family I grew up in, I am, I've got so many more opportunities than just because the, these other people are, are born a certain place or into a certain family.
Daniel (20:04):
Um, so there's, you know, there's a lot of just like, you're confronted with that justice question and I really don't have, you know, a great answer for it other than, you know, that's, it's, we live in a, in a, in a, in a world that's, that's pretty broken at times, but there's also just through, you know, love and grace and being with, you know, a person we can, we can make a difference. And so, I mean, that was kind of, that was a big thing to kind of wrestle with was just the, the poverty aspect and coming home. I was away, you know, in Montana for three months and then India and Thailand for, uh, about two months or so. And just kind of, there's a, a re-entry culture shock from a trip that long mm-hmm , mm-hmm, where you're just like, you're like, I don't, I don't need a car.
Daniel (20:44):
I don't need these things. Why do I have to find a job job? You know, like Uhhuh, Jesus, Jesus didn't have a job. He didn't have a place to stay. And, you know, he was, he just got, you know, he, he, he did his thing and he impacted the world. Like, why can't I do that? You know? So it is just, it's a, it was a lot to, a lot to wrestle with, but sure. Um, but when I was in Thailand, so kind of, we can kind wrap up the story here when I was in Thailand was where I met my wife. And so when I was in, when I was in India, I had this sense and this feeling, and, uh, just felt like I was gonna meet somebody who was going to be a lifelong best friend of mine. And I had no idea that that person was going to be, uh, my wife, who was, who was there doing mission work and our paths crossed. And so I kind of, I came home and she, she helped me walk through all of that sort of stuff. And she had her own reentry mm-hmm , uh, things to, to go through too. So at least I had somebody to, um, to walk through with that. And she, she was she's a therapist. So that was helpful.
Gordon (21:37):
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's, uh, you know, it's, uh, as I think back at you were reminding me of kind of some of my trips to Honduras, and I can remember the first time that I came back from having gone down there. I remember somebody , somebody asked me I was working at the time, uh, for a funny thing. I was working for an agency at the time, and we actually worked with a lot of, a lot of poor families, um, in the United States, but it's a totally different kind of poverty when you go to a third world country like that. But I remember somebody asking me, well, how, how was your mission trip? And I just, just remember breaking down in tears just because it was such, it made such a huge impact. And, and just, just really, like you said, sensory overload at times.
Gordon (22:29):
And, um, yeah, but I think it also, you know, to kind of bring us full circle around to the whole kindness and compassion thing. I think everyone should give themselves the opportunity, the gift of doing some kind of work like that, where you're working with people. Yeah. Um, even if it's just, you know, even, even locally at doing like a habitat for humanity build or any of that sort of thing. Yeah. Where, where you're working with people that are struggling with things in their life, um, it is life changing to be able to just be alongside them through that journey.
Daniel (23:04):
Yeah, absolutely. And I think that that's, I mean, this conversation is kind of challenging me all over again. Um, you know, the last few years I've really been focused on, on my business and also my mm-hmm , I got a five year old and a one year old, you know, so life is, is crazy. And, um, it's often hard to find ways to volunteer, but it's, it's so it's so important because we can get so focused on mm-hmm on life. And, you know, there's, there's nothing wrong with being focused on life, but there's a really, um, there's a gift that you receive that you just, you can't experience, uh, other than, than putting yourself out there. And mm-hmm, serving and just getting your eyes off yourself for just a little bit.
Gordon (23:45):
Right. Right. Well, Daniel, I, this has been a great conversation and, uh, I hopefully we'll be able to continue it again. I mean, this, uh, this is, I think the, the, exactly the kinda stuff that I, I wanna share with people on this podcast, tell folks how they can get in touch with you if they'd like to connect with you in some way.
Daniel (24:05):
Yeah, sure. You can find me, uh, at private practice, elevation.com and you can also just find me on Instagram, um, at Daniel fava, just do a search, uh, for my name and I would be happy to connect there as well.
Gordon (24:18):
Yes. Yes. And, and Daniel's got a wonderful, uh, for, for those out of you out there that are baby therapists, just a quick plug for Daniel, he's got a wonderful, uh, business and he's done, he did a lot to help us with our website and our own prac practice. And so that's his expertise and he knows what he's doing and he's got the heart for you.
Daniel (24:40):
thanks, Gordon. I appreciate that.
Gordon (24:41):
All right. Take care, Daniel.
Daniel (24:43):
Thanks.
Gordon (24:58):
Well, I just love having conversations like the one I had with Daniel. I, and, you know, I would really encourage you if you haven't really explored it is to look at how you can do maybe some volunteer or mission work or whatever you want to call that and helping people that are less fortunate, because I think one of the things that it does is it truly changes can truly change your life. I know for me, in my own story, when I went to Honduras, um, and it was really just after hearing someone speak at my church, uh, about their trips. And I went down in the context of going on a habitat for humanity, uh, trip, but it truly was life changing and really changed the trajectory of my life at that particular time. And really helped me explore what I was being called to do.
Gordon (25:49):
And just working with people that are, were struggling and it eventually led into my work as a therapist and all of that sort of thing. So, you know, I don't want to go into the whole long story there, but I would encourage you to, to maybe seek out opportunities to do work like that. Um, and I'm really appreciative to Daniel and I appreciate my relationship with him and the fact that he was willing to be vulnerable and talk about how his work in India really truly changed his life. So, um, yeah. So if you've got a story like this, you'd like to cha uh, to share love, to hear from you. And again, you can go over to kindness and compassion.com and, uh, go up to the contact us form and, um, O into the contact us page. I, and there is a form there that you can fill out to be a guest on the podcast and love to hear from you.
Gordon (26:47):
So, and also if you would like to support us in this work, consider becoming a patron. And if you become a patron, one thing, little perk there is that you could get some bling as I like to call it. There's, uh, there's a coffee mug, there's stickers. There's, t-shirts that sort of thing that you can get by becoming a patron. So take care folks, and look forward to being with you again in future episodes of the kindness and compassion podcast, Owen, and do take time to follow us wherever you might be listening to this and leave us a review and leave us a rating. Uh, that'll just help us get boosted up so other people can find this particular podcast. So take care folks and have a great rest of your week or weekend. Whenever you might be listening to this.

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About

L. Gordon Brewer Jr., LMFT |Podcast Host – Gordon has spent his career in helping professions as a licensed therapist, counselor, trainer, and clergy person.  He has worked with 100’s of people in teaching them the how to better manage their emotions through self-care and the practices of kindness and compassion.  Follow us on Instagram and Facebook .  And be sure to subscribe to our newsletter.

 

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Kayla Tapia | Gratitude As A Practice For Ending Anxiety | Episode 2

Photo by Gabrielle Henderson on Unsplash

In this episode Kayla Tapia joins the podcast, who is a colleague of Gordon’s in the mental health field.  Gordon and Kayla talk about using gratitude as a practice to show kindness and compassion in the world.  They also talk about how there are parts of our brains that have a way of looking for danger. But when we practice gratitude it helps calm those fears and help to use the higher parts of our brains.Kayla also talks about ways she has incorporated gratitude practices in her life to be more grounded and less anxious about the world.

About Kayla

Kayla tapiaKayla Pennington Tapia is a counselor and therapist in private practice in Johnson City, TN.  She is a native of the Appalachian region and is passionate about helping people find new ways to work through their “stuck” places.  

 

 

 

“In my work, I will place an emphasis on emotional exploration, as I believe all emotions serve a purpose – to motivate us, to guide us, and to alert us that something just isn’t right. Rather than fighting or ignoring emotions, we can lean into them and listen to the messages they are trying to send through mindfulness and compassion.

I will offer a space of safety, support, and acceptance, free from any judgment. It takes strength and courage to heal, and I would be honored to stand with you through your journey of self-discovery and transformation”

Kayla is in private practice with The Journey For Healing Arts located in Johnson City, TN.

Habits for The New Year

Most of us have started the New Year by trying to establish some new habits and practices. One in particular is the practice of gratitude. By practicing gratitude it keeps us grounded and staying away from this false belief that we need and want more material things in life. The push to get more and/or be more can create a lot of anxiety for folks.

A simple practice is to begin each day by finding 3 things we are grateful for and sharing that with others. By doing this it keeps us grounded in the present and makes us more aware of what we have rather than what we don’t have.  Finding what is going right rather than what is going wrong.  This helps keep anxiety at bay.

Gratitude Allows Us To Be Kind To Ourselves and Others

When we look at the definition of gratitude one source defines it this way: “To show and return kindness.”  So at the very core of gratitude is this stance of being kind. By showing appreciation of others we engage a different part of our brain.  It is the part of our brain that controls our emotions, the prefrontal cortex.  It is also the part of our brain that is the “thinking” part of our brain.

Our Brains Are Wired To Protect Us

Kayla spoke in the podcast about having a “negativity bias” hardwired into us.  It is in the part of the brain called the amygdala. It is there to protect us and keep us safe.  It is always looking for bad things that could potentially happen to us. Again, it is there to keep us safe.  But if we let this part of our brains dominate it leads to an attitude of negativity and fear.  

Gratitude practices help us to train our prefrontal cortex to be more in control.  It forces us to look for the good in things. An example of this to think about a time when you mighty have gotten a performance review. It could be a wonderful review with a lot of positives. But instead of looking at the 98 good aspects of the review, we hone in on the 1 or 2 negatives. Gratitude helps us look at the bigger picture and focus on the positives.

Connecting Through Gratitude

We also have a propensity to connect with the negative in others. If we are not careful, we can let others’ lack of gratitude hold us back from seeing the positive in things.  We do need to give voice to the negative times. But healing comes from community building and connecting around those positive things and show gratitude for people differences

Kayla and Gordon discussed the impact of the “Black Lives Matter” movement over this past year. Certainly we need to call out at times the wrongs of society and in others.  But healing comes when we can be aware of the needs of others.  In particular, show gratitude for other people’s points of view and the lens for which they see the world.

It is important to recognize and show appreciation of other people’s differences. We need diversity in order to have a healthy society.  We see this in ecosystems.  The more biodiversity an ecosystem has, the stronger and healthier it is.  It is the same for humankind.  And the more we can appreciate people’s differences it’s an act of gratitude and kindness.

Seeking Gratitude Experiences

It is important to seek out experiences that put us outside of our comfort zone with others.  It’s how we can begin to discover gratitude for differences.  We can appreciate other people’s cultural differences, it helps us to feel a connection with them.  It is a way to be actively grateful.

An example of this is a tradition with the Maori people of New Zealand. They have a greeting that for most westerners comes across aggressive and frightening. The Haka is, though, a dance and ceremony originally intended to be a war dance to intimidate opponents. But it has evolved to now have a different meaning. It is a ceremony of respect and honor. 

Here’s and example:  https://youtu.be/MW3BMJFe2pY

Gratitude is a way of learning to let go of fear and getting to know people and why they see the world as they do.  Gratitude for the differences and learning to have compassion for all that is different.

Practices of Gratitude

  • Finding a few things that you are grateful for and reflecting on that everyday. 
  • Focusing on what we have rather than not have
  • Start a gratitude journal
  • Sending thank you notes everyday; writing it out in long-hand
  • Being intentional about expressing gratitude
  • When we have gratitude for others, be intentional about sharing that thought about them.

Other Gratitude Resources:

Mindful.org

Greater Good Science Center

 

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Kayla (00:00):
And when we can get really grounded in what we feel grateful for in this moment, at least for me, it helps so much. Um, and so it, it's almost so popular that it's cliche now, but the idea of just every morning, um, finding three things that I'm grateful for. And, um, part of that too, I think has been a lot of times, there are people in my life who are involved in that. And so to also be able to share with them, mm-hmm when they come up to be able to send them a message that just, Hey, you know, I'm really grateful that you're in my life.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Welcome
Gordon (00:42):
To the kindness and compassion podcast, where we will explore the intersection of psychology science and spirituality. My name is Gordon brewer and I'm a licensed psychotherapist and mental health provider. I have spent my career helping people learn how to better manage their remote and find more meaning in their lives and connection in their relationships. Join me as we think and talk about the ways we can find happiness and be content in our lives, through the practices of kindness and compassion. We will talk with other experts in the fields of psychology side and religion. I'm so glad you're with me on this journey as we learn how to be at peace with ourselves and others.
Gordon (01:39):
Well, hello everyone. And welcome to this second episode of the kindness and compassion podcast. Hello folks, I'm Gordon brewer. Glad you've joined me on this journey and glad you're with me and listening in, uh, hope you're finding this, uh, podcast. That's giving you a lot of food for thought, and that's my hope. You know, when I started this project, this new podcast, uh, in January, I really started working on it in earnest back in November of 2021. Uh, but I had originally planned on having a co-host with me on the podcast and that person is Kayla Tapia. She's another therapist, um, licensed therapist and practice here in our region. In fact, Kayla had worked with me in my practice for a while and I got to know Kayla back, um, when she was doing her internships with us and was in graduate school. And then later joined my practice for a while.
Gordon (02:40):
And now she's moved on to greener pastors with of practice. But Kayla was one of these people that was soon as I got to know her and got to really have a lot of deep conversations with. I knew that she was the kind of person that, um, I had in mind in interviewing for this particular podcast. Kayla is such a gentle soul and she is also extremely smart. And so this, um, this particular episode is our conversation around gratitude and, uh, Kayla, um, had, um, when we, I had a conversation with her about a week ago and she really, uh, kudos to her. She set some good boundaries for herself and that she realized after we got started in working on this, she wasn't gonna be able to devote the time to it that she had hoped to. And so, uh, that's another, uh, good, uh, that's a demonstration of self compassion and self kindness, and being able to set boundaries for yourself.
Gordon (03:44):
But anyway, I still wanted you to hear from Kayla and I'm sure Kayla's gonna be joining me for other episodes because she's exactly the kind of person that I hope to have on this podcast. And just having these meaningful conversations, uh, around the practices of kindness and compassion and why it matters in people's lives. I know in my own life, just as I shared in the first episode, I've had just a lot of ups and downs, which we all potentially do. Not that I'm not, I'm not unique in that way at, um, all of us have trials and just different things in life that can become hard. And I think our way forward, at least as I've learned along the way is through the practices of kindness and compassion, kindness, and compassion to others, not only that, but also kindness and, and for ourself and learning how to take care of ourselves well, but also be able to, to take care of others in the same way. So anyway, looking forward to you, hearing my conversation with Kayla and this particular topic that we're tackling in this episode is on gratitude, and we're why that's important for kindness and compassion.
Gordon (05:18):
Hey, Kayla, how are you? Hey, I'm doing great. How about, yeah, I'm doing okay. Um, we're, we're excited to get this podcast going and in these first episodes, we're just gonna be reflecting on some of our thoughts about some different aspects of kindness and compassion. And so in today's episode, we're gonna be talking about gratitude and how we might practice that in early lives. And just our thoughts about how that makes an impact with our practices of kindness and compassion. So, Kayla, I know that you had mentioned you're started with this, this new year as we're coming out and recording this in 2022, that you'd started a new practice, a gratitude practice.
Kayla (06:04):
I did, I feel like in so many ways last year, I lost touch with that a little bit. Um, and so when I was reflecting on the new year, that was something that felt really important to bring back, um, because it made me think about all the ways that gratitude keeps us grounded. I mean, even just in terms of, of materialism mm-hmm , um, you know, it sort of keeps us on this spiral of wanting more and meeting more and, and when we can get really grounded and what we feel grateful for in this moment, at least for me, it helps so much. Um, and so it, it's almost so popular that it's cliche now, but the idea of just every morning, um, finding three things that I'm grateful for. And, um, part of that too, I think has been a lot of times, there are people in my life who are involved in that. And so to also be able to share with them, mm-hmm, when they come up to be able to send them a message that just, Hey, you know, I'm really grateful that you're in my life and you did X, Y, Z thing. Um, right. So that's been part of what that has been for me.
Gordon (07:18):
Yeah, yeah. Uh, yeah. And as I think about gratitude, I think one of the things that, um, if, for lack of a better, one of the selling points for, for gratitude is, is that I think it does keep us grounded in the present. Um, it keeps us, keeps us aware of, um, what we have rather than what we don't have. Um, I is a big, is a big part of it. And I think one of the things is, is that, um, I know you and I work with a lot of folks that have a lot of, uh, struggle with anxiety. And, and certainly in the times we're living now, particularly during this COVID pandemic and just the world in gen genuine in general, excuse me. Um, there is a lot of anxiety out there. There's a lot of, um, a lot of a sense of what ifs.
Gordon (08:15):
And when I think about gratitude, I always think about finding, finding in our lives, what is going right rather than what is going wrong, um, of really kinda looking at, at it in that way, and also looking for that and others, as opposed to trying to always kind of point out and be critical of others with, with what, what they're doing or how they're, how they're going through life. So I think this, these practices of gratitude, um, go a long way with this, just again, this whole topic of kindness and compassion, because I think gratitude can allow us to be, um, kind to ourselves number one, uh, but also, uh, express that to other people in many ways. Mm-hmm,
Kayla (09:08):
absolutely. And, and, you know, sometimes I feel like there are so many words that we just, you use so commonplace that we almost take for granted what their definition is. We just have this idea in our mind. So sometimes I'll, I'll kind of Google, just the meanings of certain words. And I did that with gratitude actually. And a part of it is, um, readiness to show appreciation for and return kindness. Mm. And fundamentally, I do think that's a huge piece of it is that we are recognizing the way that other people and the world have shown us kindness. And, and, and that allows us the space to, to give it back. Um, and you know, also something that I'm thinking, um, while you were just speaking is, is kind of our, um, hard wiring. We have this negative negativity bias hardwired into us, um, sort of this evolutionary trait that long, long time ago, it kept us really safe if we were always scanning for danger.
Kayla (10:20):
And so the people who could do that better and more effectively, those are the people who lived and passed down those traits. So now we find ourselves just kind of always looking for the bad, which keeps us safe, but I think also can lead to a lot of anxiety, a lot of mental, um, health struggles, um, and a gratitude practice sort of does the opposite. It trains our mind to look for the good instead of the bad, and it sort of rewires those connections. So the at, yeah, I'm seeing the bad still, but, but let me proactively search for the good things, the things that are going right. Which I think is a huge piece of what you were just saying too.
Gordon (11:09):
Right, right. Yeah. Uh, and, and the, um, you know, the science behind it really is makes a lot of sense. I mean, there, as you were, as you were saying this, I was just thinking about, uh, I have in my, in my office in a resource notebook, um, a prick, a picture of the brain, and there's a part of our brain called the, a amygdala that is it's whole it's whole purpose is to keep us alive and keep us safe. It's that part of our, our brain that controls our breathing, our heart rate, all of those kinds of things. Uh, it also controls that fight or flight, uh, instinct that we have that fight or flight mechanism. And a lot of times we can, that part of our brain can at, can hijack the other, the rest of our brain, particularly our prefrontal cortex, which is the thinking part of our brain, but also the emotional part of our brain that allows us to, to, um, feel some of the softer emotions. And so gratitude really engages that prefrontal cortex so that it has the ability to kind of override that part of our brain that is constantly there, you know, the danger danger will Robinson kind of part of our brain, um, is, um, can take over for of people. And so there is, there is some science that, that supports the fact that gratitude practices help us engage that part of, of our brain and, and, and make it, um, make it easier to navigate the world that we're in.
Kayla (12:51):
Mm-hmm . Yeah. And, you know, a part of that GRA, um, negativity bias too. I think we can all connect to it because it is that part of us that really grasps onto and CLS to the bad things. Um, mm-hmm so if you think about, um, I don't know, like a performance review at work or something like that, it's like, you can have 98 positive checks and one, one small thing that somebody has said, okay, you have room for improvement here. And it's like, all the 98 things go out the window and you really hyper focus on that one thing. Right. Um, which is not fun for anyone. And so I think being really connected, um, to, to the bigger picture of that helps
Gordon (13:46):
A lot. Right. Yeah. I think too, just being, you know, um, another thing I'm reminded of is just thinking I've, uh, by both of us have been, um, studiers of people and that we're fascinated by people and human behavior and all of that sort of thing. But we, um, one of the things that I've always found fascinating is, is, and I don't know if it's more of a cultural thing here where we're located in a, in Appalachia, uh, Kayla and I both live in Northeast Tennessee. And, uh, it's very much, uh, very much influenced by an Appalachian culture. Uh, but seeing two people get together and commiserate over the negative things, you know, um, , you know, and, and, uh, so at some level people will connect around the negative parts of things rather than the, the positive parts of life. And I think when we can become aware of that, we can, we can make a choice to, to connect to the positive rather than the, the negative.
Gordon (14:50):
And, uh, there's a, if you think about it, maybe even in your own life, um, when, when we have been in conversations with people over something that was troubling or something we didn't, we felt, you know, um, I I'm reminded of, of this past year in one of the things that was an important awareness for our whole society, but the whole black, black lives matter movement that occurred. Um, one of the phenomenon of that is that there was a lot of focus on what we were getting wrong. So there's, there are times when we need to do that. And I think we, we need to call attention to those things, but the solidarity and the connection over the people that were getting it right and were, were giving voice to those things and being embracing of, of our diversity and of our, our differences, um, and being grateful of the differences that we have as human beings had a whole different feel to it. And there was that there was that air of kindness and compassion that was coming out through that. And so that, that for me instills a lot of hope.
Kayla (16:07):
Mm-hmm when you say that too, I think of community building mm-hmm, the first thing that comes to mind for me is that, um, it, it, when I think we are focusing, um, on both, I think both are important. Like, you know, we can build absolutely and should build community around what's going wrong. Like that's how we come good advocates, but I think too, we can connect so much over what's going. Right. Um, and having that gratitude. Um, I'm not sure if that's making sense the way that
Gordon (16:48):
I'm saying it. It is. And I think the, you know, having gratitude for a sense of diversity, um, again, to get to kinda going down the science track, you know, in, when you look at EC, uh, ecosystems and that sort of thing, the ones that are the healthiest are the ones that are most diverse. And so I think it's the same for us as human beings. And so I think being able to be grateful for another person's difference, another person's, um, different cultural view, views, different ways of seeing the world, all of those kinds of things, very much tie into gratitude practices.
Kayla (17:33):
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And, and it tears down, maybe some of that fear of difference that we have, if we can think of it in that way, um, and sort of start looking for the things that we have in common with other people.
Gordon (17:54):
Right. Um, right. Yeah. And I think, uh, uh, you know, one of the challenges I would give, um, people, uh, that are listening to the podcast would be to, to seek out experiences where you get to experience, um, something that feels maybe a little outside your comfort zone, and then being able to practice some gratitude around that, of what it teaches you and what you can appreciate, um, you know, uh, to not to go too far off on a, on a rabbit trail here. But I, and remember, as a, as a kid, um, I grew up, I grew up in a, my dad was a pastor, and so I grew up going to church and that sort of thing. And there was a certain way in which we did church and, and the, the view at that, at least in my NA naivete, uh, a time was that that's the, that's the correct way to do this and that you must do it this way.
Gordon (18:56):
And then I can remember visiting a black church. Of course, you know, I grew up white, Southern Baptist, um, um, not gonna judge that at this point, but, uh, uh, anyway, going into a black church one time and, and experiencing the difference of that and the excitement of that and all of that, um, you know, probably at the time looking back, I wasn't as appreciative and didn't have as much gratitude for that. But now when I look back at that, man, that's, that was just such a rich experience for me in my life to be able to experience that. And then even now, when I think of going into, uh, different settings where, whether it be, you know, it doesn't necessarily have to be religious, but going into maybe, um, seeing a, a, another one that comes to mind for me came, is watching, um, the Maori people.
Gordon (19:55):
I don't know if you've ever seen New Zealand doing the haw, um, if you've ever seen that well, YouTube it, um, and when you, when you, uh, the thing about it is, is that when you first see it, it feels very, um, very intimidating to watch that sort of ceremony go on. But when you understand the backstory behind that, of when they do that, they do it at funerals now, and they do it in situations where they are showing respect for people and what it was. Uh, it was a thing that was misinterpreted by a lot of people when they would come to New Zealand and, and, and face some of the indigenous people. And we'll probably, I'll try to have a link here in the show notes for a, a, a YouTube video of, of a haka ceremony being, being done. And, um, but once I learned the context and had gratitude for what it meant, it took on a whole new meaning and that now whenever I see one or, or witness that, um, it just fills me with a lot of emotion. And so, um, yeah, so didn't mean to get too much off on a rabbit trail, but I just thought those, that was a story that came to mind for me and just thinking about gratitude.
Kayla (21:17):
Well, I love it. And I think it helps me put into words better what I was trying to say earlier, which is that we are sort of wired to be scared of what's different. Um, you know, there is that sort of innate us, them, uh, mentality that's wired into us and, and it comes from a space of, of fear of the unknown, which none of us like that. Um, but I think when we can let go of that fear a little bit and start to under stand and start to, um, ask questions and, and really get to know people in the context and, and, and see their different perspectives and their different experiences as an opportunity for us to learn and connect. Um, it, it makes our relationship so much more rich and meaningful because I can absolutely think of times in my life where I was just surrounded by people who thought believe, acted, everything exactly as I did.
Kayla (22:23):
And, you know, I think there was an intentional piece to that because it felt safe and comfortable. I was never cha, um, it also, wasn't meaningful though. And now what I find is that every day in my life, um, through the work that I do, and also, I try to be very intentional about cultivating it in my personal life. I see people who are so extraordinarily different and have such different experiences and such different viewpoints. Um, and it, it does help me tap into, um, a strong sense of compassion of really understanding the background and where somebody is coming from. And it just teaches me every day, you know? Yeah. keeps me, it keeps me active and connected and, and it does challenge me in all the places I need to be challenged.
Gordon (23:17):
Right, right. Yeah. So as you think about, um, maybe, you know, one of the things that I hope that we'll be able to do with this particular episode is put into the shows summary in the show notes, some, some resources around practicing gratitude. What are some practices that come to mind for you that people can start maybe doing to, to kind of dip their toe in the water around gratitude?
Kayla (23:45):
Yeah. I mean, the one that I described is so easy, um, to start and, and I think maintain, which is just finding a few things every day, um, to reflect on what you're grateful for. Um, a big piece, I think of, of making any habits stick is having a consistency in when you're doing it and how you're doing it. Mm-hmm . And so, you know, if it's the last thing you do before you go to bed, you, you just know to expect, that's the last thing I'm gonna do. Um, if it's a part of your morning routine, you just know that that's when it's gonna happen. Mm-hmm . And I think that simple change makes it really easy to keep up. Um, um, and another thing I think is, I think you kind of mentioned it earlier, is this idea of, of really trying, um, to be intentional about focusing on what we have instead of what we don't have mm-hmm um, and, um, those are the two really simple things that come to mind for me. Do you have, do you have
Gordon (24:48):
Other stuff? Yeah, there was, um, you know, I know there, there are some folks that, uh, keep God gratitude journal where they, um, actually write down, you know, and, um, every, as you're you were saying things that they're grateful for. And another, another idea that I absolutely love, which I think would be a pretty momentous task, at least from my view, as I heard about someone, sometime that would write a thank you note to somebody every single day, and they would mail it to them. And it was just people that maybe they knew, or maybe people that they didn't know. Um, of course, I've got this image in my mind of Jimmy fouling doing his thank you notes on on, on his program. But, um, um, with James playing the music in the background that came to mind as I was thinking about that, but, you know, I think any of those things that we can do that are intentional, that are our habits that we, um, go out of our way to do.
Gordon (25:53):
And I think the, the other thing too, there there's something to be said for actually writing things out in long hand mm-hmm because our brain processes that information and those things differently, we, we tend to retain it more or if we write it down in long hand, rather than type it out on the screen. Uh, and so I would, I would encourage people to do that. And, uh, again, we'll try to have some links and, and that sort of thing here in the, in the show summary and the show notes to give the point people to other resources around this.
Kayla (26:28):
Yeah. I, I, I just, I wanted to add, um, that I think that's a really important, um, aspect of, of this new practice that I've started. And I really hope that I keep up is that in the past, um, you know, it's not new to me to, to maybe think of three things each day that I'm grateful for, but I think the new thing that feels really especially meaningful to me right now is that if a person comes up in that gratitude BLIS and that gratitude reflection, I let them know mm-hmm , and, and that feels highly connective for me. And it, it really does, I think, allow me, uh, I'm not just keeping it to myself, I'm grateful for them. And I'm, I'm allowing them to hear and feel that appreciation and know how meaningful they are in my life, which, which has added a whole nother layer to it. I think for me,
Gordon (27:21):
Yes, yes, absolutely. Well, Kayla, I'm grateful for you. I'm glad that we're doing this together. And, um, I'm looking forward to our future episodes here. We are at just episode number two, but it's the place that we start. And so I want to invite everybody to, uh, be sure and follow us and subscribe to the podcast wherever you might be listening to us. And also if you'll go to kindness and compassion.com, um, there'll be a place there for you to sign up for our email list. And, and probably by the time you hear this, there'll be some freebies that you can get from us, some PDFs and some guides, and that, that sort of thing. Uh, that's just our gift to you for signing up for that email list. And thank you so much folks for being with us on this journey.
Gordon (28:25):
Well, folks, I hope you enjoyed listing in on my conversation with Kayla, and I'm so grateful for her, uh, as I mentioned in that particular episode and just, um, the thoughts that she's bringing to this and her life experience around gratitude and do, do check out the show notes and the summary we'll have a few links in there to other resources. Uh, one, uh, as I've been doing some research for this podcast, a few, um, things I'll I'll point out to you are just kind of make mention of, there are a few websites that I've discovered. Um, one is the, uh, mindful old.org website, I think is our excellent website on just has a lot of great resources on mindfulness and gratitude and those kinds of practices. And the other one is the, and it's produced by Berkeley it's, uh, Berkeley university, UC Berkeley, and it's the greater good science center.
Gordon (29:27):
And I came across, uh, their website and their resources. They have, um, they have a podcast called the science of happiness, which has been on my regular listen list. And, um, just a great resource to, to point out to folks and we'll have have links here in the show summary and show notes. And also I mentioned the, uh, the video for the Hawke dance, uh, which is a traditional, um, dance that it's a, really a, an honorary kind of dance that the Malory people. And so I invite you to go over, to take, uh, a look at that. And there's a link to some YouTube videos here in the show notes and show summary as well. So, well, take care folks. And, uh, again, thanks for joining me for this podcast and this journey and this new venture of mine, uh, be sure and go over to kindness and compassion com and subscribe to our newsletter.
Gordon (30:23):
And, um, when you do that, you'll be getting a lot of, uh, freebies and resources just around the practices of self care and kindness and compassion, and just, uh, resources that we're putting together. As we kind of, uh, as I like to say, we're building the plane as we at, uh, maybe that's a bad metaphor, but anyway, that's what we're doing here and be sure and, uh, follow us and subscribe to the podcast wherever you might be listening to it. And so looking forward to you being with me and future episodes and be sure, and drop me an email or reach out to me. Um, you, if you might be interested in being part of this, this, uh, project with me, if, if there's content you would be interested in contributing as far as being on the podcast and us having a conversation or other resources that you know, that you think might be interesting to people love to hear about out those.
Gordon (31:23):
And again, if you'll go to kindness and compassion.com and go to the contact page there, you can get information about how to contact me and, uh, also apply to be on the podcast. So take care folks, and, um, looking forward to being with you in the next episode, you have been listening to the kindness and compassion podcast with Gordon brewer, part of the psych craft network of podcast. Please visit us@kindnessandcompassion.com for more information, resources, and tools to help you in your journey. Be sure to follow us wherever you listen to your podcasts. And if you haven't done so already be sure to sign up, to get the free kindness and compassion practices guide. Again, you can find that@kindnessandcompassion.com, the information in this podcast is intended to be accurate and authoritative concerning the subject matter cover. It is given what the understanding that neither the hosts guests or producers are rendering clinical medical, mental health, or legal advice. If you need a professional, you should find the right person for that.

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About Gordon

L. Gordon Brewer Jr., LMFT |Podcast Host – Gordon has spent his career in helping professions as a licensed therapist, counselor, trainer, and clergy person.  He has worked with 100’s of people in teaching them the how to better manage their emotions through self-care and the practices of kindness and compassion.  Follow us on Instagram and Facebook .  And be sure to subscribe to our newsletter.

 

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